Subud Vision - Discussion

Sahlan Diver - Our Cunning Plans

Loved your article. From Rochanah, January 8, 2010. Time 10:42

Loved your article and will attempt to share it with "hardliners". So good for me to get a few clean LAUGHS.

Perhaps you are lucky that despite your clear thinking you can still feel you are part of Subud. For myself, after more than 40 years I am finally "free".

With love and respect,

Rochanah Weissinger

From Sahlan Diver, January 8, 2010. Time 10:52

Thanks for your appreciative comments, Rochanah.

If you would like to see an example of UNCLEAR thinking, might I suggest episode 7 of the excellent Congress TV.

It's the most depressing video regarding Subud's prospects that I have ever seen. Makes me want to write a point by point rebuttal of the nonsense. Unless the editor of this piece deliberately edited out opinions he didn't like, and there seems no evidence of that, I'd say this shows why there is no market for change in Subud.

Frankly the only way Subud will change is by a new latihan organisation doing things sufficiently differently that it not only gets and keeps new members but also has Subud members, especially younger ones, drifting away from Subud to join it. However if that does happen then it will be too late, there will be no need for Subud as an organisation any more - another organisation more adept at spreading the latihan, one that is not piously hanging around for God's guidance, will have superceded it.

Kind Regards,

Sahlan Diver

From Philip Quackenbush, January 12, 2010. Time 21:41

Hi, Sachlan and Rochanah,

We had a "kedjiwaan" day here after "latihan" on Sunday and I participated in the "testing" (the first time I've done that since last year's Menucha retreat in Oregon). One of the questions we tested was what significance the NZ World Congress had for the world. I got that its significance was minimal, that the Earth (Gaia) was intelligent enough to take care of itself without any input from the puffed-up, arrogant "fleas" on its skin. In terms of "God's" "guidance", or "following 'His' 'will' ", my "testing" on the question of who I was made that laughable, because I AM THAT (and so is everyone and everything else) I AM, so there's only ME to turn to for guidance (in leading this illusory life within this particular "dream" that isn't happening and never did, as A Course in Miracles explains at length [and also succinctly]), not an "other", such as (choose any or all) "God", "Jesus", Buddha, "Bapak", Mithra, Joe Blow, the latest DVD, or fill in the blank _______. Surprisingly enough, those "testing" with me on that question accepted what I "received" without resorting to the usual SUBdenials (at least overtly).

The one hopeful sign for the organization that I've seen was the fact that on the slideshow of arriving members from Congress TV very few of the faces were recognizable to me, which means that most of the membership is now "new" so the so-called "Bapak's 'mission' of bringing the "latihan" to any and all who ask for it is more or less successful despite all the roadblocks the organization continues to put in the way of new people "receiving" it. Since the "latihan" is just a normal physiological function (of the autonomic nervous system, mainly) that has been culturally suppressed in most societies around the world, it's available to anyone who's willing to relax into it, anyway, so the main advantage of "receiving" it in the SUBorg is that it's nominally (but not actually) dogma free (for more insight on that, see the new book, Buddha's Brain).

Another question we "tested" was about what was "interfering" with our "receiving" the "latihan", again somewhat laughable, because the question implied that the "latihan" was somehow superior to any other state. I pointed out after the "testing" that that assumption actually interfered with anyone leading a life of any balance between the use of the "heart and mind" (to use SUBterminology) and the supposed (or actual) "benefits" of the "latihan", which only the Balinese are known to be culturally capable of among known, examined cultures, even though they may have never heard of the term "latihan".

Since the SUBhouse is so close and I know so many SUBmembers, it's still practical to "do latihan" with them without getting sucked into the usual nonsense, but I suspect it's rather impractical for many of those "opened" (I met a newly "opened" member Sunday who had a two or three hour commute to get there, as well as a couple of long-term members with the same problem who have formed a subSUBgroup there) and too easy for the weak-willed "follower" types to join in the cultish aspects of the organization. I suspect that the only palliative for it is to continue to speak up and confront the nonsense when it occurs if one is strong enough to face the inevitable backlash from those too immersed in the Bapakism and/or separation theology culture to want it disturbed.

Peace, Philip

From rochanah, January 24, 2010. Time 16:17

Hi Phillip:
You say: " I suspect that the only palliative for it is to continue to speak up and confront the nonsense when it occurs if one is strong enough to face the inevitable backlash from those too immersed in the Bapakism and/or separation theology culture to want it disturbed."

And I say:

"why bother?" Life is so delightful without having all the subud stuff be a burden on one's "back". :-)

Peace and love


From Philip Quackenbush, January 25, 2010. Time 9:50

Hi, Rochanah,

Yeah, agreed. The only time I say anything about such subjects (and objects) these daze is when the opportunity arises (or sinks). I talked to a returnee from the NZ Kongres on Saturn day after "latihan" and it was all "small talk." Now that I know what I'm "here" for in this particular reality/illusion (to enjoy what life has to offer in this form [at last!]), life has become much less of a hassle, but I'm still trying to simplify it for greater freedom (and fun). A lot of stuff that I used to self-flagellate myself for (met a four, Rick Lee) as being "wrong" or "wasting time" has become a source of comfort and joy (even though crispness is past, and it's not kosher to sing that at this time of year). Enjoy.

Peace (=love), Philip

From Philip Quackenbush, January 25, 2010. Time 10:8

Hi, Sahlan,

Just a footnote to your article: I've been watching DVD's of 'Allo, 'Allo, and I'm not sure if that was the origin of "I have a cunning plan" or Blackadder. Only the ends that result from the means seem to be different. We can make all the plans that we want to, in Subud and "out of it" (a telling phrase that perfectly describes what most members [myself included] experience during "latihan"), but the way the world works, as its complexity is very well illustrated in the Mandelbrot set graphic, is that other people have plans, too, and so, what is intended often gets sidetracked (as Gurdjieff fans [and detractors] are probably aware of in his noting of the half steps within the octave illustration). So, even in situation comedy, a lesson is to be seen, but maybe we have to be shown the same thing ("you stupid woman") over and over (or stop laughing long enough) before we "get it".

Peace, Philip

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