Subud Vision - Discussion

Official Reports - Subud Trademark Registration

Subud Symbol Trademark. From submike, August 5, 2010. Time 3:1

Marcus, you use your mind too much. You should learn to feel, to "recieve". Obviously you have a long way to go in your spiritual growth. Remember there are seven spiritual levels, and within each are seven levels. Somewhere along that path you will reach a point where you will not have a negative comment to make about SUBUD.

From marcus bolt, August 5, 2010. Time 9:54

Wow! Amazing spiritual truths you are revealing... tell me more...

From Sahlan Diver, August 5, 2010. Time 10:30

Dear "submike"

I've been looking at the article you refer to and am puzzled as to what your objection is. Apart from the introduction, the whole article is mainly about the inadvisability of being upfront with attaching the (R) registered trademark symbol to the Subud symbol displayed on Subud web sites.

Since Marcus has been a graphic designer by profession for 40 years, then it would not surprising when he looks at a web site design that his mind will automatically engage and tell him what is right and wrong from a design and marketing point of view. Are you suggesting that he should ignore the promptings of his mind and wait to receive an opinion instead?

If the Subud trademark is too prominent on our web sites and is therefore offputting to "outsiders" this is a fact that is true independent of whether somebody happens to have thought it, or received it. In other words, what is important is the truth of a situation, not the method by which the truth was arrived at.

Concern for one's own spiritual growth is important. I agree with you. Similarly, I expect you would agree with me that a truly spiritual person will show concern for others, not just themselves. As Subud members one of our concerns for other people should be that we don't deliberately or inadvertently put obstacles in the way of them being introduced to the latihan. Marcus's article is saying that the use of the (R) symbol, through its association with litigious corporations and even cults is projecting a sufficiently negative image of Subud, that it may well be an obstacle to some people joining us.

From Walter Segall, August 30, 2010. Time 14:36

Oy vay iz mir! I don't know about there being evidence that those with greater spiritual growth are more reluctant to make negative remarks about Subud. I can believe that there are many (besides Halim) who will make negative remarks about the Brotherhood, the helpers, various committee members, possibly even aspects of the Latihan as it is done in Subud centers in USA, but who are inhibbitted from publishing such comments lest someone accuse them being lacking in spiritual growth (whatever that is).


From Philip Quackenbush, August 30, 2010. Time 14:49

Hi, submike,

Does that emoniker mean you're under Mike, as in sodomy or a microphone, that you're a Mike who blongs to Subud, or what? Marcus seems to be speaking from experience in his comments. Is that also the case with yours? Where the founder of the SUBcult was clearly not factual in many things that he said, he did say that it's best to speak from experience, especially when it comes to so-called "spiritual" "knowledge". Your comment seems to be just parroting what he said, rather than something you've experienced. Is that not so? Have you, then, experienced all of the seven "levels" and their supposed seven sub-levels, or perhaps I should say SUBlevels? I personally have come to an understanding of the existence of eight basic "levels", or dimensions or densities of experience, though it's probably more accurate to say that there are an infinite number of them. If Marcus' humor or comments don't appeal to you (or mine), you could perhaps try Lenny Bruce or Paula Poundstone, or, in a pinch, that of the founder of the cult. Whenever one points a finger at someone, there are three other fingers pointing backa at them (so maybe I should shut up now). Enjoy.

Peace, Philip

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