Subud Vision - Discussion

Maya Korzybska - What We Do and How We Do It!

"Bapak wants". From Sahlan Diver, January 22, 2011. Time 13:45

I think this will probably be the final new feedback topic I am initiating on your article and recent replies to feedback.

You said “I rarely 'quote' Bapak and only in a hopefully helpful way.” But in direct contradiction to this you also say, referring to consensus “…where we aim for consensus ... ... it is both necessary and hard work, and it is the way Bapak wanted the organization to function.”

I wonder what can be more “Bapak said” than saying we have to run our organisation a certain way because that’s what Bapak wanted. No question as to whether Bapak was right about it, or whether his ideas have turned out to be unworkable, or maybe were workable once but have now been superceded by the march of time, and so on, just “it is the way Bapak wanted”.

From Michael Irwin, January 27, 2011. Time 19:2

My understanding of the use of consensus at Congress was that it came from Varindra in his method of running plenary meetings. If Bapak had anything to say about consensus as a technique for running large meetings, then I would like someone to make a reference to the passage.

From Sahlan Diver, January 27, 2011. Time 19:32

I'd like to see a reference or two as well, Michael. If what you say is true that this came mainly from Varindra, rather than Bapak, then frankly it's scandalous that Subud is holding on to a flawed system on the basis of supposed divine authority. Just serves to confirm what I think about the philosophical basis for the current Subud, mainly prejudice and superstition with very little real understanding of Bapak,


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