Subud Vision - Feedback

Michael Rogge - Towards a Subud Renewal

Any Logic in Subud?. From Philip Quackenbush, March 8, 2010. Time 4:44

Hi, Michael,

You've been in this racket even longer than I have, but one of the benefits of the "latihan" that could have been mentioned that has become clear to scientists, if it's not considered unique to Subud, is its effect as what Benson of Harvard describes as the "relaxation response" in leading to greater health and longevity. The reason for that, as I see it, is just the release of tensions that you mention below the leads to a more normal flow of what the Chinese call "chi."

MR: As I see it, the liberating effect of releasing tensions in the latihan leads us to a way of submission and surrender. We attune ourselves to spiritual forces

In my years of bopping away at the "latihan", I've come to understand ("received", if you prefer) that there is no separation of "spiritual" and "material" except as concepts, that it's all just energy. So, there is no separation between the "divine" and "secular" either, as "part" of All That Is, we do the will of the Whole whether we want to or not, the "looseness in the gears" provided by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle writ large in the macro world the source of whatever "free will" we have as individuals, but paradoxically as individuals simply being tools of All That Is for gaining experiences for It and ourselves through our daily lives, So, whether or not we "surrender" to the greater flow of chi within us that gets balanced by the process of the "latihan" or the "latihan" (represented by the autonomic or "lower" nervous system being allowed to do its thing instead of being inhibited by signals from other parts of the brain) "forces" us to submit, it's all just a process that we can either accept or fight. The so-called "grace" in the "latihan" is the opportunity to allow that to happen, letting go of the demands of the precious, actually non-existent, except as a bundle of thoughts and desires, ego for long enough to effect transformations in the brain and thus our lives.

I recently read a book by a neurologist who's a Zen practitioner about the recent findings of neuroscience as they apply to Zen, and, since Zen involves a "letting go" as well as concentrative meditation, much of it, IMO, applies to the "latihan" as well. He notes that the desired "kensho" or "satori" insights only happen during a period of "letting go", or deep relaxation.

Another book I'm reading online by a physicist who's an Advaita Vedanta student as well, A Course in Consciousness, by Stanley Sobbotka, sets out in clear, logical order in a series of questions and answers at the beginning of the book, what vedanta students see as the nature of reality, and, IMO, there's much to be learned about the nature of the "latihan" from it. As long as the organization and its "explainers" keep to the arcane "explanations" of the "latihan" by the founder of the organization, I doubt that they will provide much significance to anyone applying to "receive" the "latihan" unless the "explainers" "stand on their own feet" as the founder encouraged us to do, and speak from their own insights and experience, some of mine being cited above. If the "explanations" are the product of "fuzzy thinking", as they often are, often presented by people who have just come out of "latihan" and are quite "spaced out", how can anyone expect them to be acceptable or useful to anyone who's seen the greater logic in something like vedanta?

Peace, Philip

Add Feedback to this page / Communicate with us

Use the form below to

Very sorry but feedback forms now permanently closed on the Subud Vision site