Subud Vision - Discussion

Lilliana Gibbs - But what IS Subud

Taking "time out" from "official" Subud with benefit.. From Edward Fido, December 23, 2007. Time 5:49

A delightfully witty and totally unconstipated article, Lilliana.

I am reminded of the story of Maulana Rumi and his wish that they did not build a shrine over his grave.

My gut feeling is that "we" - pious Subud members outside Indonesia - have built a shrine over the latihan and a few simple directives which we call "Subud".

It happened very early on. It was well and truly alive when I was opened in Melbourne in 1969 and the same atmosphere, or worse, seemed to pervade Brisbane when I walked out three years ago.

Somewhere on the web a while ago I found an article titled something like "Bapak is not proud of Subud". I bet he wasn't!

There is a hilarious aspect to this. I can remember my own devout "pilgrimages" to Cilandak in the early and mid 1970s and bizarre helpers in various isolated parts of this country acting like some of the more dubious characters from Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales".

We certainly have had more than our share of bogus, self-appointed gurus and saviours.

I think a lot of the old Gurdjieff inspired nonsense and its perpetrators are dying out. There are many people and many things in the organisation I shall not mourn.

It is amazing how many people, like you, have taken "time out" from "official" Subud with benefit.

I think, sometimes, it is more than necessary.

Thank you very much for penning the article.

From Sahlan Diver, December 23, 2007. Time 10:49


You say "It is amazing how many people ... have taken "time out" from "official" Subud with benefit".

Good point, and surely there should be enough of these, including also the people who take time out never to return, to make us realise Subud has a problem. This is a spiritual movement and yet many find it overbearing or stifling. Unfortunately, it is just those who never take time out, and who are placed to be able to fix the problems, who are the least likely to admit Subud has problems - only last summer I received an email from someone saying that anyone who criticised Subud was in reality only dealing with their own personal issues,


From Edward Fido, December 24, 2007. Time 3:1


I obviously agree with you.

My gut feeling is the "hierarchy" who cry "heresy" every time someone says anything against their particular "gospel" are becoming more figures of fun as the days go by.

Retirement would be looming large on the horizon for most of them.

Their "successors" will either change or emulate the dodo.

Maybe we are in need of pruning?



From Walter Segall, December 24, 2007. Time 15:59

Lilliana may mistake advice for rules. We are advised not to practice other teachings, and Buddhists are not required to meditate in many denominations of Buddhism, nor do all denominations of Buddhism demand the chanting of mantras.

About gay people in Subud we have had differing views on this. One of the most respected helpers in Subud NY is gay even though he is married and fathered a child before trying to maintain a heterosexual lifestyle became too hard for him, and Bapak had a friendly relationship with Rofe. On the other hand, my late wife's (Zichron l'vrakha!)* best friend was denied being opened by Subud NY helpers because he was openly gay.


*Hebrew: May her memory be a blessing!

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