Subud Vision - Discussion
Hassanah Briedis - The Latihan of Subud, Dissociation and the Neurology of Spiritual Experience
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From Philip Quackenbush, December 21, 2007. Time 23:30
I got this in an email from another grouplist this AM. It's rather long, so I'm dividing it into sections, but this first, at least, seems to pertain to Hassanah's research.
Peace, Philip
Sandeep wrote:
>The world as a holomovement.
>
>The tangible world is movement,... not a collection of moving objects, but
movement itself.
>
>There are no objects 'in movements'.
>
>It is the movement which constitutes the objects, some of which are
architectured to sense "other" objects, through the attribute of the property,
known as sentience.
>
>In essence there is nothing but movement, ...........as phenomenality.
>
>A nuance of which, is this very stating.
>
>------------
>
> Wholeness is flowing movement. With the hologram, the movement of interference patterns of coherent light enfolds a subtle range of structures and orders. In a similar, but unthinkably vaster, way, the whole movement or "holomovement" of the universe carries the implicate order and allows us to see and experience our four-dimensional space-time world.
>
> - An expressing through the objects named Briggs and Peat, in Looking Glass Universe
>
>Movement arises from flashes of energy.
>
>This movement is a continued and infinitely rapid succession of flashes of
energy.
>
>All objects perceptible to our senses, all phenomena of whatever kind and
whatever aspect they assume, are constituted by a rapid succession of
instantaneous events.
>
>------
> Mind, I believe, exists as fleeting energy in parallel universes. The universe we perceive consists of the overlap of these fleeting flashes of energy. The patterns create mind as surely as they create matter. Both the existence of matter and the perception of it are the same thing.
> - An expressing through the object named Fred Allen Wolf in Parallel
Universes
>
>A single result arises from many causes.
>
>Nothing is produced by one single cause;
>
>The combination of practically infinite number of causes is necessary to bring about a result. The seed without the co-operation of earth, dampness, light, etc. will never become a tree.
>
>The most sublime poetry, the most profound prose, the highest acts of
creativity, no matter what is the medium of expression,........ needs that
precise combination of the neuro-transmitting chemicals like
serotonin-dopamine-oxycyticin (among others), in the synaptic gaps in the neural network of the brain.
>
>It is this prevailing chemical profile of the millions of synapses in the
brain, which is now seen, in turn to affect the HPA axis,
(Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal),................... in precisely the specific
manner, .....................such that, the exact instructions are carried out
by the physiological system, such that those precise words, actions, behavior erupt, as external actualizations.
>
>In the moment.
>
>Moment to moment to moment.
From Philip Quackenbush, December 21, 2007. Time 23:50
Second section; enough for now; more later, if approved by the editors
Peace, Philip
The world as holomovement II - Sandeep
>The dynamically changing chemical profile of a responding organism, is both genetic in origin as well as the result of the impacting influences and inputs it receives while the organism is "alive".
>
>Genetic origin of any organism whether sentient or otherwise, is the genetic legacy of phenomenality itself.
>
>And hence, there are only universal causes and universal effects.
>
>It is only the Whole which acts, each act as nuances of the movement of
Totality.
>
>Whether the nuance is an act of scratching your nose, or a seeking of Moksha or a whirling in a state of fana.
>
>Whether it is walking in words in a satsangh, or the frenzy of a transnational corporate merger.
>
>Whether it is foraging for food on the streets, or the exploding super nova, in a brilliance of thousand suns.
>
>---------
>
> The universe is multidimensional, creative, and indeterminate, constantly
unfolding new 'forms' or subtotalities which are expressions of the whole. The galaxy, the city, the corporation, even the very cells of a human's body are in a ceaseless energy exchange like water flowing through a vortex.
>
> - An expressing through the objects named Briggs and Peat, Looking Glass Universe
----
>
>The microcosm and macrocosm are intimately connected.
>
>"The cycle of Interdependent Origins thus takes place in everything,
everywhere, in the infinitely small as in the infinitely great. Its development
does not take place progressively in time; the twelve causes...are always
present, co-existent and interdependent, their activity is interconnected, and they only exist on with the other.
>
>Expressed as The Secret Oral Teachings in Tibetan Buddhist Sects
>
>The development of structures in what is called microevolution mirrors the
development of structures in macroevolution and vice versa. Microstructures and macrostructures evolve together as a whole.
>
>- An expressing through the object named Erich Jantsch, Creative Evolution
----
>
>The World as Mental Projection
>"Mind" is a description not a thing.
>
>The realization that 'mind' is only a word indicating a series of mental
phenomena.
>
>---------------
>
> For the operation of the nervous system, there is no inside or outside, but
only maintenance of correlations that continuously change.
>
>Self-consciousness, awareness, mind - these are phenomena that take place in language.
>
>"'Mind' is not an entity but can be ascribed to a system exhibiting regular
behavior.
>
> - Expressings through the object named Humberto Maturana, The Tree of
Knowledge
From Bronte, December 21, 2007. Time 23:53
I think, after reading the very carefully thoughtout ideas here, and the responses to mine, I am just going to sit back and accept the fact that I am just Not Enlightened.
Very self evident fact I think. Thanks, and happy new year to all.
From David Week, December 22, 2007. Time 12:42
Becoming Human
Once a man came to me and spoke for hours about
"His great visions of God" he felt he was having.
He asked me for confirmation, saying,
"Are these wondrous dreams true?"
I replied, "How many goats do you have?"
He looked surprised and said,
"I am speaking of sublime visions
And you ask
About goats!"
And I spoke again saying,
"Yes, brother - how many do you have?"
"Well, Hafiz, I have sixty-two."
"And how many wives?"
Again he looked surprised, then said,
"Four."
"How many rose bushes in your garden,
How many children,
Are your parents still alive,
Do you feed the birds in winter?"
And to all he answered.
Then I said,
"You asked me if I thought your visions were true,
I would say that they were if they make you become
More human,
More kind to every creature and plant
That you know."
--Hafez-e Shiraz, Sufi Poet, Persia, 14th C.
From Bronte, December 22, 2007. Time 23:56
Ah! At last! Some objective criteria!
Well-my score:
Wives - 0
Goats - 0 (1 dog)
Roses - flowering - none, but one or two trying to.
Birds fed in winter (or summer) - 6 magpies, 4 Kookaburras, 2 occassional unwelcome crows, 2 or 3 wattle birds.
That's my Total score.
Well - not much.
But it at least provides an Objective Measure.
Thanks for that, and Happy Christmas All and Happy Congress for all you Australian Subudists in a fortnight's time.
I'll be thinking of you as I drive past your venue from time to time.
And I'd say by now I must be completely Off Topic.
Sorry Sahlan and all you Subud Vision editors.
You may delete this any time now.
From Hassanah Briedis, December 23, 2007. Time 23:29
Hi Philip and Bronte,
The excerpts from the other website which you pasted in Philip, seem to me to be very confused, and I wonder just how you feel they pertain to my article subject or my research, as you state. My response as I began to read the various bits was that I recognized the general approach, of the concept of life and matter as essentially energy and movement, but the reference to neurons and then the HPA axis, seemed to be unconnected. Particularly the HPA axis - what does that have to do with the rest of your quotes?
I think the issue of belief systems is, as usual, something upon which people have to agree to disagree. Those that see a belief in God as necessary to religious experience seem to find it very difficult to conceive or visualize the opposite, that all the wonderful, life-affirming, compassionate qualities of human behaviour, even worship of the sacred wonder of the universe, can be practised without any reference to a God. That the values of behaviour can be just as pure and constructive, and often carry far less judgementalism, because those values are not part of a package handed down from a omnipotent deity.
I personally feel that being quoted the wisdom of other philosophical systems, even Buddhist, can come across as rather patronizing, and I don't blame you Bronte from having a knee-jerk reaction. Can we not quote from our own experience and our own wisdom?
I hope family times are good for you all at the moment. Best, Hassanah
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