Subud Vision - Discussion
Old Timer - Notes from an Old Timer
Something New is Needed. From David Week, September 27, 2007. Time 14:18
Hi Old Timer
Re-reading your article, two questions come to mind. (Are we allowed to use that taboo word? :-)
1. I get the sense from a number of old timers that they too feel that something is amiss, that something new is needed, and that more-of-the-same is not what's called for.
QUESTION: Do you talk to other old timers about your perceptions? Do you find a sympathetic response?
2. You ask "Where are the flyers, zines, web pages, blogs..." Then there is SubudVision. To me, this is the beginning of the flyer, the zine, the public webpage, the public blog, because it is the beginning of a new kind of discourse within Subud, one which is more in tune with the values and the needs of an open, democratic and informed society. I needed SubudVision (and before that SubudTalk) to help me sort out what MY story was, not the old story which simply doesn't fit what I know about the world, or about living my own truth in the world. Until I sorted that out, I can't even begin to write about Subud from my own perspective. I will certainly never feel comfortable just repeating the words of others; nor do I think anyone ever be touched by such repitition.
QUESTION: in terms of your call, what do you think of Subud Vision as a step in that direction (even admitting that most of us aren't that youthful?)
From Old Timer, September 28, 2007. Time 4:22
Yes, David, I find Subud Vision could be a very good vehicle for a new beginning of 'flyers, articles, blogs' etc. But then, it would have to move forward from the present position of 'sorting out', of criticising the status quo, of self analysis and licking of old wounds, of intellectualizing around religion vs Subud, etc. We need a fresh receiving of the aims and purposes and meaning of the latihan to the Person-kind of the present and future.
You say you are not ready to do this. But now is the time to do this. If you cannot, then we must encourage those who can, and mine the experiences of the young who are living with the latihan in its extraordinary simplicity. It is they who can show the way and who should be encouraged to freely redefine the borders and perhaps, start their own groups... ( and believe me, from that will arise another 'culture', because that is ironically the way of Person-kind, isn't it? we create culture inspite of ourselves, and then, tired of what we have done, we destroy it. but that is another story!)
I don't want to ask other Old Timers what they think. I'm interested in what the the new ones think.
From Sahlan Diver, September 28, 2007. Time 9:13
Old Timer says: "We need a fresh receiving of the aims and purposes and meaning of the latihan to the Person-kind of the present and future"
We haven't had the results we hoped for, so, even if there were to be a fresh receiving, where's the guarantee we would do things any better?
Learning from the mistakes of the past is vital, and one of those mistakes is precisely the tendency for Subud members to look down on analysis as an unworthy activity. The Subud Vision initative will hopefully counter the prejudice against using the mind, but we have a lot of catching up to do, thinking about issues we should have applied ourselves to a long time ago. Only after that process can we expect a new beginning.
From sabariah van beek, March 24, 2008. Time 16:31
Dear David and all,
I've just tuned in to Subudvision for the first time and I am SO HAPPY! It's good to see the discussions, articles, time people are taking to share in a careful way about Subud and raise the issues, sort the ideas, provide the context and the sounding boards.
I do have a comment though about something that I am observing (and I ask forgiveness if this is not relevant as I am really reading quickly and perhaps too superficially as I have not read everything out there in the articles or discussions)....
My comment is this:
Subud is not about us! To me, it's about a miracle of higher energy being channelled downward and allowed to swirl around the world, being stirred through peoples and their cultures, histories, physical and mental/emotional beings (outer and inner effects); it's about the latihan coursing through the invisible veins of the human, animal, vegetable and material living system we exist in -- it is a gift, unable to become a religion through words and definitions or political components -- it is not coming from our own will and cannot fit our will, no matter how much some agree to agree, generation or culture or place.
I believe Bapak when he says that it's about God's love for humanity at a time of ego imbalances and out-of-control technology which is leading us to increasingly vividly potential self-annihilation (see Eckhart Tolle).
For Subud "experts" who have spent years being loved by the latihan and who have tried to give back through the organization, it is far less important to talk about Subud than it is to be Subud.....ie., make it known yes, I am a Subud person, but then, acknowledge and respect what someone else's Self is working with, and Give them what you feel and know inside in some way by being Open to them on the level of equal human being so that whatever positive latihan energy you are carrying can be shared, but not from your personal will or expectation.....
Let's share the positives, the receivings, the beauty....not the worrying about why there arent more people joining, or the criticism about why helpers dont do their jobs well or committees dont function etc.
I do not think there is a need to systematize or re-vocabularize Subud....I dont think there's even time for that anymore....
I think we need to feel our latihan and the peace and love and extra spiritual confidence it gives us, the inner speaking, the inner presence of others who are higher and helping us, and spend our lives following the stream, sparkling when there's sun and drinking when it rains.....
I dont know quite how to express this, but I believe this is a time of deep transformation and Subud has already been sown as a new kind of receptive spiritual ground within mankind for the new seeds to grow....if we have faith, then it doesn't matter why there arent more people etc., because maybe everything is already OK, maybe those places on earth which need the latihan the most are the places getting the new Subud houses and so on, and the other places are just filling up inside, everyone already feeling the latihan as it floats by or rises up or gets sung next door....we are receivers of something way beyond our own capacities to understand, and yet we can serve it by accepting that this is the gift which comes for some reason now, and we need to keep the place inwardly and outwardly where it exists pure and honest and free.
Have you read anything of Ken Wilber? He is an "integral" philosopher/psychologist/spiritualist who started an institute in Colorado: his books are many - his approach is being taught at Harvard and Stanford.....he speaks of the Left and Right hands of God, the inner and the outer, the individual and the collective....very well! And also looks at the history of mankind in all the spheres taking the high points as it were and putting them together -- I think he is pointing to many more people's growing awareness and consciousness as proof that this is a time of spiritual renewal, even as it has brought the serious problems we are facing as the old ways are surmounted and have to drop away.
I think that Subud's coming actually started alot.....and deepened alot.....and that we just have to ride the wave by being totally sincere, open, available to its purpose.....
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