Subud Vision - Discussion

Ilyas Baker - A Mevlevi Shaykh’s Experience of Subud

Fascinating. From Edward Fido, December 15, 2009. Time 2:18

This Mevlevi Sheikh's experience of Subud and the latihan are pretty amazing, Ilyas. Thank you for getting him to write them.

The Mevlevis are one of the most respected Sufi orders around and had tremendous prestige and status in the Ottoman Empire. Besides being a spiritual movement they were renowned for charitable works.

It is interesting that he speaks so positively of Subud and his experiences in it.

Somehow it all seems to have worked out well for him which is good.

Perhaps, at some stage, he, or others like him, may return to Subud. And perhaps they may not.

He was always quite honest with the Helpers and they with him. They also seemed to be able to genuinely receive answers to their testing about opening him and just followed those.

This seems one of those things which happened. What more is to be said?

From Philip Quackenbush, December 18, 2009. Time 9:25

Hi, Ilyas,

There is no question that the Bugged One had his followers doing what Subud calls the "latihan." You can see it on YouTube any time you want. The reminiscences of the anonymous (one wonders why?) Shayk remind me of what it was like in the the oily daze of Subud in SF and Berkeley. IMO, there is no essential difference between what is described as "mini-latihans" and "latihans" except the form. If one is standing when "receiving" instead of sitting, it allows more freedom of movement when required, i.e., movement of the energy, or chi, as one might say of the "latihan" of the Chinese doing spontaneous chi gong (which also generally starts in a standing position). Also, IMO, it is a great error to assume that someone is "opening" someone else. It's merely a response that comes from the proximity and intent of the people involved. Once established in the supposedly separate individual, the proximity no longer matters as much, just the intent (or lack of it) since distance is as illusory as time. I could say more, and possibly offend even more people with my opinions of the article, but it's an interesting personal historical record, and I'll leave it at that.

Peace, Philip

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