Subud Vision - Discussion

Helen Bailie - Bait and Switch

The Latihan is Key. From Lucas McCluskey, April 20, 2008. Time 20:11

Thank you for the wonderful explanation of your experience and for making the distinction between the organization and the latihan. I recall that Bapak once did clarify that while the latihan was something that one received directly from beyond human intervention, "Subud" the name and the organization was Bapak's "gift" to the members. Perhaps that talk is still available somewhere? Perhaps there are more people practicing today that have absolutely nothing to do with the organization than we will every know. I suspect the 'real' helpers are out there too.

From Philip Quackenbush, April 23, 2008. Time 22:31

Hi, Lucas,

A small point: Someone else (I forgot who; one of the early group of members in Indonesia) "received" the name Susila Budhi Dharma, not Muhammad Subuh. He agreed that it was the best name for the org., though. Also, I suspect that Subud was organized out of necessity from pressure from the new Indonesian government to avoid being branded as a group that didn't conform to the five accepted religions there, with someone else besides Muhammad Subuh doing the legal legwork.

Peace, Philip

From David Week, April 24, 2008. Time 4:34

Hi Philip

It was Pak Slamet who coined the name "Susila Budhi Dharma". Notably these are all Hindu-Buddhist terms with a very long lineage. Notably, they mean something other than Pak Subuh's Islamicized definitions. Notably, at the time, the traditional mystical movements were being persecuted by "pure" Islam, and this is a likely reason for the odd definitions.



From Philip Quackenbush, April 24, 2008. Time 7:58

Hi, David,

I suspect that Pak Subuh didn't really have a "good" definition for the SBD name, since almost every lecture he gave where he attempted it came out different, as you may have noticed. I remember when I was an active "helper" coming up with a different take on it for every applicant, because I was trying to go on what Subuh said and my own experience, and nothing seemed to quite fit as a standard, probably because during that entire time I didn't know what they really meant in Sanscrit (or Pali).

My understanding of Sanscrit at present is that it's such a complex language that a term can have several meanings depending on its context, but at the same time, it's a very precise language (which is probably why there are so many ways to translate the Gita and the Dhammapada (Pali being a close relative of Sanscrit), none of them probably really accurate, and a couple of lines in the Upanishads can take several paragraphs to explain.

Knowing about Subuh's disdain for reading books, it might not be too farfetched to assume that he had little or no knowledge of the actual definitions of those words himself unless he was drawing on the "collective consciousness" of the universe, which could be assumed to know everything (and often is; if there's one "spiritual" belief I come close to having, it may be that). Maybe he was, but his lectures hardly stand up to that standard, IMO, or if he was a channel for the "collective unconscious", there seemed to be a huge amount of static on that channel, since his lectures were filled with non sequiturs, misattributions, and even ad hominems. Anyone who doubts that (as you know) can refer to Mansur Medeiros' "Watch" series archived on Yahoogroups' Subudtalk (theoretically open to subscription by any Subud member)

Peace, Philip

Add Feedback to this page / Communicate with us

Use the form below to

Very sorry but feedback forms now permanently closed on the Subud Vision site