Subud Vision - Discussion

Erica Sosna - God's Work

Subud On The Map. From stefan, March 21, 2008. Time 21:11

Very much enjoyed this fresh, frank perspective.

One of the questions you raise, Erica, interests in particular. It arises from:

"In my training work with young people, I’m actively encouraging them to engage in practices that increase their fortitude, self awareness and self trust. I’d like them to know about latihan as one of these tools."

I just read the account of Rofé's life and see how vital his initiative was in the spread of Subud. People with a talent for communication could play a similar role now. It's never a question of pushing but simply of including the latihan - without any persuasion whatsoever -in the options (such as Meditation) that people hear about.

Thanks for raising this,


From Philip Quackenbush, May 17, 2008. Time 7:24

Hi, Erica and Stefan,

I remember something the founder of the cult said about "opening" people younger than 18 (now 17), that "children" do what they like, and they might just do "latihan" to the detriment of their schooling, etc. OTOH, with society the way it is now, who's to say that vegging out in an alpha or theta trance most of the time is necessarily detrimental? It could be that such a Subud member (or someone "opened" outside the cult) might be doing society more good than they could getting a PhD or discovering a new principle in physics after 50 years of advanced study, like some Buddhists claim their meditators are doing on an "inner plane," or Christian monks on Mt. Athos, fur egg sample, saving lives in a "second body". It is possible, though, for an "extreme latihaner" to die from doing it "too much," as an example was given by the founder in the early daze. But, then, those given to extremes know no age barrier, 9 or 99, and most kids live in "latihan" anyway until they're taught otherwise, when they gain enough verbal competence to be told "what to do."

As far as "opening" people outside the cult, it's done all the time, especially under other banners, such as Indian gurus' shaktipat, but don't let the "helpers" catch you at it, or you may get a fatwa from the IH's that bans you from the cult forever. The cult is still full of rigid personalities, and will probably only cease being a cult when most of them either die or lose even more mental competence that makes them unable to function in any rôle in the cult where people are forced to listen to them and/or do what they say.

Peace, Philip

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