Subud Vision - Discussion

Andrew Hall - Reading Bapak’s Talks

The Reality of Bapak's Words.. From Katharine O'Sullivan, July 8, 2007. Time 12:39

Many of us have been down the same avenue as Andrew Hall in his discussion on the reality, relevance or accuracy of Bapak's words. I spent many years as an isolated member (I was writing for a newspaper in the Middle East during 3 of those years) reading Bapak's talks and examining them for lies, dogma, inaccuracies etc. etc.

I have never found a lie in Bapak's talks. He might, as he said, have made many mistakes in his life, as he was a human being after all but in his talks, I do not detect this. I do not worship Bapak as I had the experience after Bapak died, by his graveside at a time when I deeply and utterly revered Bapak to the point of worship, that this was not correct and that the only one to worship is the one and only Almighty God. This was very hard for me, as my reality as a Christian, only took me as far as worshipping through Jesus Christ, and I suddenly was shown that I had no idea how to truly worship Almighty God. My experience is that it is a very hard climb to get to that point and, if this is to be achieved in this lifetime, the latihan is a magnificent clearer, cleanser and director of that path.

The best tool we received with the contact of the latihan is the ability to test. Other people's opinions, ideas and assertions do not matter in the light of individual testing. If we then follow the testing, which is the point, the results from following will show us how accurate our testing is and this is what we have to find out about ourselves - are we in touch with ourselves or not, and at what level?

If Andrew Hall were to test from what source Bapak received or gleaned the information he gives on homosexuality, Andrew might find an answer. I did so this morning. What I understood was that Bapak was talking from the "ideal" of mankind. Ideally, mankind is divided into two genders - male and female. It seems each has the creative force that when put together is able to bring about reproduction of other males and females. This is the reason for genders.

However, whether through a genetic process or choice or otherwise, there are the by-products in the use of this process on many levels - in actions, in words, in deeds. (As in Catholicism - the Humanae Vitae was published by the Vatican (and I am not a supporter of Vaticanspeak) as the ideal of human creation - even though for compassionate or other reasons, birth control methods are used - that doesn't mean the ideal is wrong - its just the ideal - and again the resulting practise and action of mankind in this area varies.) That is the human condition.

And, incidentally, Bapak's choice of words in a letter to a particular member on homosexulaity would, I suggest take into account, the member's ability to take on the advice in the light of his reality in relation to his practise of worship and homosexuality. Advice to one person does not always apply to another even though we are happy to share our information and experiences.

Lastly I would like to say that it is most important to understand that Bapak himself told us to follow our own latihan. His talks were not teachings he said many times. They were explanations of his experiences given in his talks so that should we, and if we, had similar experiences, his talks would help us to understand the reality of our inner direction (receivings) through our latihan. I would suggest that the importance of reading Bapak's talks is not to learn what and who he is (although it is inevitable) but to have a confirmation and understanding of our own latihan experience. Most times, it is difficult to understand as often we can't tell the difference between purification and receiving, in and out of levels, and direction. Most times, we experience our latihan and go away and forget it. For our own growth we need to follow our latihan and if it helps to do this through the reading of Bapak's explanations of his experiences then why not do it.

But never, never allow ourselves to follow these explanations as teachings & rules which supersede our own latihan directions.that is the point at which we allow subud to become a religion, a cult, an institution that rules human beings' spirituality, an organisation that grabs the goodness of our humanity and turns it into a nightmare. Etc Etc.

From NY, March 12, 2012. Time 12:50

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