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From stefan, May 30, 2009. Time 9:27
Why do latihan?
Spontaneous exercise in which some find spiritual nourishment. Easy access, no study or guru required, no fee.
Why join Subud?
Subud provides the framework to do latihan with others which helps some people to establish a regular practice.
From Sahlan Diver, February 14, 2009. Time 9:5
Firstly, I have to qualify my answer to the question. I would be talking about the value of a person joining Subud as the value of their practising the latihan, since Subud is currently the only organisation providing organised facilities for latihan.
Given a choice between 1) talking about the latihan from a religious point of view 2) talking about the latihan from an esoteric point of view 3) talking about the latihan from the point of view of my understanding 4) talking about the latihan from the point of view of my experience, I would nowadays always choose option no 4.
Talking from a religious point of view may sometimes be appropriate if the person you are talking to is on the same religious wavelength of yourself. However, I am not religious so I could never have used option 1, but having come into Subud after working in a Gurdjieff group, I did used to go for option 2, enthusiastically giving an esoteric explanation about the latihan, thinking that I was thereby being "religion-neutral". I now realise this was wrong. Unless the other person was sympathetic, they were more likely to see my explanations as just some other religion. Also it would be odd, if the latihan, as we claim, really doesn't require the adoption of any beliefs for it to work, that the reflex action of Subud members when asked to talk about the latihan is to launch into explanations heavily laced with religious or esoteric terminology.
Option 3 is difficult. Have I really developed a spiritual "understanding" or do I just think I have? Even if I have, an attempt to express it in words may come out clumsily or tend towards intellectual philosophising, or I might sound ponitifcating or grandiose. So now I would use option 4. Bapak used to say that the latihan could bring good fortune, but not in a magic way through Subud members being specially favoured, but through an improvement in character as a result of doing the latihan, and the possibilities this opens out for your life and for your interaction with other people. This is something I can talk about from my own experience. However, because making claims for oneself is open to suspicion, I would also give examples of changes for the better that I have observed in others.
From Merin Nielsen, February 14, 2009. Time 1:1
Subud supplies a chance to try out a spontaneous meditation called latihan that many people claim is beneficial. The benefits are described in a wide range of ways with no general agreement about them, but practising latihan might increase your equanimity or help provide a potentially useful perspective on life. Many practices offer something similar, but latihan is slightly unusual since it involves no technique to be learned, in principle no teaching or theorising, practically no rituals, no icon, and no goal to be reached. It involves initially relaxing your body, thoughts and emotions, then 'tuning in' with your whole being. It's fairly convenient to practise and no fees are charged, so if it sounds like your cup of tea, maybe you should try it.
From farlan, February 12, 2009. Time 23:48
The Short answer:
No Value Can Be Placed on Subud, so I can not give a value to it. Ask God.
Or:
"If you want God to take charge of your complete life, both in this world and the next, join Subud. If not, do not join".
- - - - -
The Longer answer:
Well, this is a great big question. If I could tell you what I would do at this very moment . . . Just what I would say sometime in the future . . . I would have to have great inner strength and wisdom, for I could predict the future. It is my faith and belief that only Almighty God knows this answer.
Humor: "If He (God) would just give us all a little booklet, with simple answers nicely organized and easily sent via text-messing via phones, etc, then we all could have ready answers to all the questions."
Now, let us assume that the person has already asked the question, if not there is nothing to do.
If he/she has asked, then I would have to completely trust my inner guidance, and pray that I could do the right thing.
My experience has been that if the person is really sincere, and is to some extent, already being guided by something inside, the association would be easy. Otherwise, I would wait and pay attention to his/her reaction to my simple, casual, conversational approach.
That is about as deep as I can go at this point.
Farlan
From sjahari, February 11, 2009. Time 9:7
The core element in subud that could be of value to people, something they could take away with them, is the element we refer to as
“ Testing”.
By using this term I do not mean the formal process which attempts to find answers and solutions and simplistic conclusions. I dont know if there is a better term to use, but what I am speaking about is the process by which we can obtain guidance in our lives. I mean the process of putting ourselves into the inner state of acceptance in which the things we need can find our way to us.
This is the idea of presenting a question, or a problem or a dilemma and then letting it go and following what comes in order to find guidance.
We live in complicated times. Young people are faced with a plethora of options to choose from in their every day lives. How to find a partner. A job. A place. A living.
As human beings we do have the possibility of being in a certain inner state, and inner place, combined with outer place in which the things that we need can come to us. In order to find that place, and be in that state we need to be able to put aside thinking and worrying, and just be. The latihan gives one option of putting ourselves in that state, putting ourselves in the river which will potentially nurture us.
Where should I go? What should I do? Where should I be? Where will things turn out good for me? What inner place do i need to be in? what outer place?
It is a matter simply of putting ourselves into an inner frame in which the guidance we need and the things we need can naturally find their way to come to us. Diving into the river of nurturing.
This is the one thing that is available in subud and the latihan. This is perhaps the only thing that distinguishes subud in some small way from some of the other practices. .
The more we talk about religious ideas of God, and the more we ascribe to the ideas of religious oppression that define the history of the western world, the less relevant we will be. And the less interested young people will be in this practice.
What we need to do is to move away from that way of talking about things, whether it be with Islamic terminology, Javanese terminology, or Christian terminology. We need to move towards the essence of subud which is simply to find a way to be in that centered place through which life is nurtured.
This is what so many young people in the world today are truly in need of. They are crying out for individual guidance in their lives.
And it is this which we can actually say is a positive reason to recommend subud as a practice.
Collectively, we have many experiences of this nature. These are the stories we should gather together and share with others — simple everyday experiences where we have had guidance that lead us to be in the right place at the right time.
Perhaps we could begin to collect and share some of those simple stories.
From jacob, February 4, 2009. Time 10:36
Why would you want to 'show there is any value in.. joining'? First there has to be a NEED which predisposes those who becomes aware of this need to look for something more, something real, something unknown. Then all you can do is tell them how you felt, what drove you to look, and what you found, and what the result has been - generally, and specifically at certain times.
This then - this is the crucial point - is the sharing of experience.(not intellectual construct) What they do with this shared info is their own business, and has no relevence or relation to us. The outcome is between them and God.
We must step back from the implicit drag in the question (sorry if this is unfair) where it implies we have to have a comprehensive or good reason (justification) or explanation capeable of persuading them that this is the way for them.
In summary, it is more the quality of how we say it, than what we say. The vibration/frequecy of the contact in our communication that counts
....Not the perfect explanation !
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