Subud Vision - Feedback

Ragnar Lystad - The Impossibility of Subud Enterprises

Enterprises - the Quaker model.. From roselight, June 9, 2010. Time 20:27

Re Enterprises
Quakers were the model for this idea - I was told Bapak said the Quakers once did quake i.e did the latihan so he clearly knew about them. Has anyone found this quote ? So perhaps he knew this about them - after all Uk groups use Quaker halls a lot, and Bapak may have been in one on a visit. Some early members were Quakers.
In Quakerism the idea of enterprises for independence and charity support worked in an outstanding way. They started nearly all the UK banks - Lloyds, Barclays etc and became very prosperous. Did Bapak seek to emulate them ? It failed perhaps because it was an imported model, a copy. Subud had its own way to forge in a new way simply not suited to business or banks. It develops talents which cannot be exploited for money.

From Philip Quackenbush, June 10, 2010. Time 0:52

The local group here was doing "latihan" in a Quaker hall a while back, and I got a look at the Quaker organizations(plura) historical chart (not a pretty picture, but quite enlightening of the path a "spiritual" organization can go down, and seemed and the time and still seems a likely path for Subud). The founder of Subud supposedly also mentioned that they no longer have the "latihan", that they lost it early on when their founder died, and in my opinion, after further reading and encounters, I think their thinking is still rooted in the 18th century, at the latest (not that there's anything particularly "bad" about that, but it's a bit like the majority of physicists who still think in Newtonian terms, even though they know that the universe doesn't work that way, and what we perceive is an illusion; they were at least partially responsible for the ideas that formed the United States; too bad that the Constitution has become, in the words of Dubya, "just a piece of paper.").

Peace, Philip

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