Subud Vision - Feedback

Raymond Foster - What Lies Ahead?

Think of the organization as serving customers. From Sahlan Diver, September 27, 2007. Time 9:11


In the second paragraph of your article you say: "...although I found complete fulfilment by way of the kejiwaan, I nevertheless found myself ... very much at odds with the social and thence the organizational side of Subud".

This comment puts me in mind of a comment from Michael Irwin in the feedback to one of the other Subud Vision articles: "Now the idea of separating out the congregation of the opened from those who want to be active in the organizational support of that congregation is emerging."

Perhaps Subud should be organised more like the Church where there is a much greater separation between practising one's faith and being involved in the Church organisation. You can just turn up, take part in a church service and then go home again - people don't have to feel obliged to sit around and socialise afterwards, nor have to get heavily involved in Church organisational issues. To put it another way, if someone is converted to Christianity, the most important thing is that they have become a Christian, not that they have joined an organisation called the Christian church.

There is nothing "received" about the committee model of organisation that Bapak encouraged, which in practise has become overblown and burdensome for Subud's small membership. In fact, there is probably nothing particularly Indonesian about it either - it's the system of organisation one would find at the local cricket club or stamp-collecting society.

We should be looking at alternative models of organisation that might serve us much better, e.g. as Michael Irwin suggests "...think of the organization as serving customers".

Add Feedback to this page / Communicate with us

Use the form below to

Your Details

Your name:


(Only needed if sending a feedback contribution for which you require anonymous publication)

Your email address:

not published


Please type the security code in the picture


Send Message

Please type your message below (message not needed if requesting password, or requesting addition to or removal from feedback notification)

Length restriction: Feedback is limited to 80 lines of text, which should be enough to make a point.

If you need extra space to make more than one point, please send a separate feedback item for each point.

After clicking once on the button to send your feedback, please be patient. It may take several seconds for your feedback to be registered. A new page with an acknowledgement message will appear as soon as the feedback process has been completed.

Password Reminder

If you have forgotten your password, fill in the email address above that you used last time and and press the button below:

Complain about a posting

If you are unhappy with content of any posting on this page and wish to complain to the editors, write your complaint in the message box above and press the button below:

Request or Decline Email notifications

If you wish to receive instant email notification of any change to this page, enter your email address and chosen password above and press the button below:

If you wish to stop receiving instant email notification of any change to this page, enter your email address and chosen password above and press the button below:

Problems filling in the form? To get help, please email