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Michael Rogge - Fifty Years Of Doubts And Reservations

More Doubts, but I don't live on a reservation. From Philip Quackenbush, January 24, 2010. Time 9:14

Hi, Michael,

I just read your new article, but ended up reading this one, as well, since I couldn't find a feedback niche for the other one. In the face of major change around the world, Subud as an organization seems to be doing what other organizations in the world, from governments on down are doing, i.e., WYA (watch your ass, i,e., do whatever necessary to maintain the status quo, no matter how neolithic its attitudes), instead of allowing necessary transformations which will take place anyway, with all the new energies coming into the world from the near-time crossing of the galactic equator by the solar system, of which the "latihan" was only a penumbral harbinger, IMO.

It's time for humanity as a whole to grow up and take responsibility for its personal and group actions. In relation to Subud, that could be reflected in something that "Bapak" (which one? there must be millions of them in Indonesia) once said, in a clear moment among his error-filled trance pronouncements, that no "spiritual" (read: any) progress is possible until you take responsibility for (implied: everything in) your life. What I saw of the recent Kongres in Christchurch on KongresTV seemed to offer hope only in terms of the attitudes of some of the younger members (who may leave the org. just as fast as the usual 98% have done; my reasons for staying in it are similar to yours).

The one major "benefit" that I personally got from the Kongres was some "testing" at a lo-cal "Keds (a shoe brand) gee wan day" during it where one of the questions we "tested" was a variant on the ol' mist stick phil loss of fee cliché question "Who am I?" The answer I got, which was no surprise to me, was that I'm IT, i.e, "God" (but so are you and everyone and everything else). This flies so much in the face of standard SUBtheology as taught by "Bapak," though, that I doubt it will ever be accepted by the org. as a whole (hole?), thus, it will continue to slide down into the hole it has dug for itself, in all probability, or, at best, remain in the current status of "stable" membership that it's had for probably the last 40 or 50 years (I heard once that there had been 10,000 people "opened" in Vietnam, which is probably the total current non-hidden for political reasons active wordwide membership) and is more or less frantically attempting to backstroke to maintain. At the moment, except for its charitable activities and the "latihan" itself, it seems to be mainly benefitting The Family.

Since the "latihan", as we both know, is available under various guises, IMO, those who need it will eventually get it, whether the SUBorg. survives or not.
The feeling of the lo-cal group I belong to seems to have improved over the last few years (but of course, that could be just a projection of my personal feeling), so, if that's true in a critical mass of the org., it may yet survive.
At the moment, my current attitude is mainly to observe and participate when asked and I feel it to be appropriate, so I'm getting a lot of laughs just watching the circus clowns performing. The next performance is scheduled for tomorrow AM an hour after the church service I sometimes go to, so maybe I'll go to the church service instead, since I'm going to a concert in the afternoon that may be all the entertainment I can take for one day. Enjoy.

Peace, Philip


From Michael Rogge, January 24, 2010. Time 13:21

Dear Philip, Thanks for your comments. I feel much in the same corner as you are. From what I have seen of the Christchurch congress I get the idea that it is a copy of previous congresses: euphoria that wears off in a couple of months. No taking stock of the stagnant situation and its causes. It is new to me that 10.000 people were opened in Vietnam. Another Subud tale. I suppose that a dozen are left now. At one time when Icksan Ahmad was in Shri Lanka thousands of people were opened there too and again, only a few are left. The same for Johore. Shortly another article of mine will be published here: Towards a renewed Subud.
Best, Michael


From The Webmaster, January 24, 2010. Time 15:20

The article that Michael Rogge refers to above has already been sent out to subscribers to our advance subscription scheme. It will be available in our general article index at the end of this week.


From Philip Quackenbush, January 24, 2010. Time 15:58

Hi, Michael,

From what you say, there may be more members from Sri Lanka not in Sri Lanka than there are there. I personally have met 3 in the US, one a long-term member low cally, definitely one of the Old Guard (IMO the most conservative helper in our group, having told me very angrily once that "God" would punish me for what I've said about "Bapak". Oh, well...it takes all kinds. Enjoy.

Peace, Philip


From paul brackley, March 11, 2013. Time 0:37

It's great to understand a bit more about Subud. I was opened 40 years ago but have not been to a group meeting for 30 years almost. Can never quote work out what Subud really is although I latihan for short times still.

Would love to know more about the real History of Subud and other organizations where the "opening" is similar. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that consciousness survives after death (although what form who knows) and maybe latihan helps with this.


From Michael Rogge, March 11, 2013. Time 10:13

Dear Paul, Well a lot about Subud's history has been written down by Harlinah Longcroft in the first two volumes of the History of Subud and Luqman Keele's Journey beyond the stars (based on Bapak's brother's reminiscences I hear)
Philip, I believe that every particle in the universe reflects God. In the Old Testament it says; I tell ye, ye are Gods. I believe that we have a spiritual and divine layer in ourselves in a dormant state, although we receive intimations of their awakening sometimes. Our future may be the mutation of man's mind to deeper consciousness.


From paul brackley, March 16, 2013. Time 5:15

Has anyone got a copy of history of subud, would love to buy it but given up trying to buy it over the net? Paul


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