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Subud Vision - Feedback

Andrew Hall - Reading Bapak’s Talks

Reading without having enough real understanding. From Leanne, January 21, 2008. Time 13:29

Dear Andrew,

When I read Bapak's talks I don't always agree with everything he says, and if something bothers me I just surrender it and let it go, because I don't think that my understanding is very broad. It is like this when people read the bible and take it literally, without having enough real understanding it becomes almost a weapon that can cause harm. The same also is true of the Qur'an, hence crazy people committing very un-Godly acts of terror and vengeance based on words that came from God. Bapaks talk's are really beneficial to me, not as some new teaching where I can get the inside story on new info or rules on what is right ways of living straight from God, but where I get proof and evidence of the experiences that I have received during or as a result of my latihan.

Usually I experience something for my self and will be in a state of wondering if what I've felt is real or true and I'll some how find myself reading a talk that is about the very thing and I will find as a result of Bapak's talk my faith in the latihan experience is strengthened and I feel comforted that God is almighty.

If I want to find right ways to live my life, rules and correct human behavior, even though I'm not religious, I read the Bible, or every now and the Qur'an.

From Andrew Hall, January 22, 2008. Time 17:55

Hi Leanne,

I appreciate your response because it helps me understand how someone can feel the worth of reading Bapak's talks while still finding content in the talks that they disgaree with.

You say the talks often provide you with "proof and evidence of the experiences that (you) have received during or as a result of (your) latihan."

If I can rephrase what you are saying, you first have an experience connected to the latihan and you then come across something in the talks that validates your experience, and so your faith in the latihan is strengthened.

What I also find very interesting is that you make a distinction and you do not use the talks to find "right ways to live (your) life, rules and correct human behavior."

During the events that I talk about in my article, the debate about becoming more welcoming to gays by including a clear statement in our Subud Canada by-laws that Subud does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, many Subud members made free use of quoting Bapak's talks and (in my opinion) using Bapak's words as an authority to justify a position against gays.

I wish they had adopted the position that you take, to not use the talks to find rules for human behavior.

I really wonder how many members in Subud feel as you do and avoid using the talks to justify rule setting?

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Andrew

From Mike Higgins, January 22, 2008. Time 20:4

"I really wonder how many members in Subud feel as you do and avoid using the talks to justify rule setting?"

Anyone who follows the advice that Bapak himself gave us, which was that the latihan should be one's guide and his, or anyone's else's, beliefs and opinions are optional accessories. Follow the inner rule and outer rules will become irrelevant.

From Bronte, January 22, 2008. Time 23:56

"...many Subud members made free use of quoting Bapak's talks and (in my opinion) using Bapak's words as an authority to justify a position against gays."

Please tell us just what did the Canadian bureaucracy of Subud do with this approach?

Ban gays from being helpers, or members?

Do they have a clue at all about life?

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